Kororaa Accused of Violating GPL 
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 19:07
We have received an email claiming that the Kororaa Xgl Live CD is in violation of the GPL.

I have been researching this as much as I can, asking many prominent people in the Linux world for their opinion. So far, no-one has agreed with the email, however a few have said to seek legal advice, which I cannot afford to do (but can't afford NOT to do, if I want to continue the Live CD). As such, the Live CD has been put on hold, until I can sort this out. If I cannot sort this out I will be forced to cease work on the Xgl Live CD.

Here is the email:

It seems that your kororaa live CD contains the non-GPL nvidia and ati
binary drivers. I hereby request that you cease distribution of these
drivers as part of your live CD for the following reason: This
distribution both goes against the open source spirit of linux and is a
license violation of the linux kernel.

To expand on this later claim:
* When *you* build these drivers, you include GPL linux kernel code in
the binary result, which *you* then distribute.
* The GPL license clause 2 does not allow combination of GPL and non-GPL
work in a bigger work (your live CD) when the 2 pieces are not
reasonably independent. (Strictly speaking this means you're not allowed
to include the linux kernel on your CD; to keep your CD functional
however the easier way is to drop the nvidia/ati drivers)
* The GPL license clause 3 does not allow you to distribute a derived
work unless it's also GPL licensed. The compiled ATI/NVidia drivers are
clearly a derived work (even though parts of the drivers most likely are
not, parts clearly are, and you're distributing it all together).

While I applaud your effort to make linux easier to use, I urge you to
play be the same rules (GPL) as everyone else is playing by.


Firstly, I am not a lawyer so these are my (possibly misguided) opinions. As I see it, the main issue is whether the nVidia and ATI drivers take GPL sourcecode from the Kernel and build that source into their closed source drivers. If that is the case, then certainly there is a GPL violation, but I guess being closed source only nVidia and ATI will know for sure.

Perhaps the first point of call is that the nVidia license permits the re-distribution of their driver in Linux distributions. Surely if it was a GPL violation they are not allowed to do this, or perhaps it's just down to the distro maintainer to see if the GPL overrides other package licenses.

I send emails to both ATI and nVidia querying this license issue. ATI didn't even acknowledge my email however nVidia (to their credit) did reply (thank you!). Here is the nVidia license, as quoted in an email from nVidia:

The NVIDIA Software License:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_swlicense.html

permits redistribution of the NVIDIA Linux Graphics driver like you are doing:

"2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms
of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux
or FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived
from the source code to these operating systems, may be copied
and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not
modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files)."


Ok, so that doesn't prove that the nVidia driver uses Kernel code or not, so I probed again:

I cannot give you legal advice, but I can tell you technically how
things are organized within the driver.

The NVIDIA kernel module consists of two pieces: a binary-only
portion and a kernel interface layer (aka the "shim"). The
binary-only portion is not Linux-specific (the same code is used
on Windows, Solaris, etc), and does not include any Linux kernel
header files when it is built. The shim is provided in source code
form with the driver package, and this is the piece that is compiled
for your version and configuration of the Linux kernel. The shim
is the only piece that references Linux kernel data structures or
macros, and only does so to the extent that is needed to provide
the functionality of a modern graphics driver. After the shim is
compiled, it is linked with the binary-only portion, to produce
the final NVIDIA kernel module.


I am not *that* technical, but it would appear to me that the nVidia driver is not actually using any code from the Kernel, but rather just information. He does state that it "does not include any Linux kernel header files when it is built". I do not understand what "data structures" or "macros" are in relation to the Linux kernel, perhaps someone else will know.

The other points in the email are to do with whether one can package non-GPL components with a larger GPL project. I guess on the face of it, it sounds logical that you can't, but if this is the case then surely almost every distribution out there is in violation of the GPL? There are lots of different open source licenses that conflict with the GPL, so even if a distro bundles something licensed under Mozilla or something like Java for example, wouldn't that mean they are also in violation? Maybe it just comes down to interpretation? I was of the opinion this was one of the reasons the GPLv3 was coming out, Stallman wanted to kill "hybrids". If "hybrids" are not permitted by the GPLv2 license, then surely it wouldn't be a necessary feature of the GPLv3?

As I said, I'm neither a lawyer nor an expert developer so all my opinions could be fundamentally flawed.

The main point I want to raise is that we do want to comply, honour and respect the GPL in relation to the Kororaa Project. Currently I am in limbo because no-one seems to be able to confirm the accusations made in the email.

If we are indeed in violation then on behalf of the Kororaa Project I sincerely apologise to the entire open source world, and will cease distribution of the Xgl Live CD immediately.

Is anyone out there able to shed some ground breaking light on this issue?

Although the Xgl Live CD has been halted, we are still working on the next official Kororaa release, 2006. Thank you all for your support.

Many thanks,
Chris
Ajay 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 07:55
What a bunch of BS. The guy who sent you the email is a total jackass (or Jack's ass, as one may say). I guess he has too much time on his hands. I request you to igonre his email and get on with doing what you like doing best...

Ajay
MachineHead 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 08:09
If a violation has taken place it looks like the Driver Vendors are responable. Which the person sending this email has to take it up with them.

Look at how many projects use these drivers, they are not responable for the coding of these drivers. The Driver Vendors Are!

Here are a few refrences:

http://www.gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html

and here's another atricle that should be read

http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid ... 01/1938223

It not like the Kororaa Project is trying to Distribute there live cd as prority software for profit..........

Vladislav Blanton 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 10:49
I'm sorry to hear about this confusion and I hope it comes to a conclusion soon. By my understanding, a lot of projects/companies violate Linux's GPL license by packaging proprietary code with it, but Linux/Linus doesn't mind all that much. As for the GPLv3, the first draft doesn't (seem to) impose any further restrictions on this topic, it only adds new sections to the GPL discussing DRM, Treacherous Computing, and a couple other new subjects.

Good Luck and I can't wait for kororaa 2006!

pharon 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 11:31
I have investigated these issues some long time ago and collected the results here :

http://phaeronix.net/legal

The page has been up for a long time and I have released several versions, nobody has objected to either.

I hope you continue your releases providing great XGL experience.
I want good competition. :P
aidanr 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 12:27
yup, sounds like bs, opensuse do a oss and non-oss version, so then they'd also be in violation, and i'm sure theres lots of other distros that include non-oss stuff aswell
Jim 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 12:49
It all depends on who sent the email.

If it's just some random passer-by, then ignore them. If you have done something wrong here, then it will be copyright infringement. If you have committed copyright infringement, the only people with legal standing to make complaints and ask you to stop distributing are the copyright holders.

This means unless the email is from NVidia, ATI or a kernel contributor, they are, quite simply, talking out of their arse.

If I were you, and this wasn't one of the above people, I would send three emails: one to NVidia, one to ATI, and one to the kernel development list, asking if anybody objects to your use. If you don't get any complaints *from actual copyright holders*, then by all means keep distributing Kororaa.

William Seager 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 14:36
I am a member of the Mandriva "Club" - which means
I get to download "special" versions of their
distribution. One of the features is a disk of
proprietary software such as binary video drivers.
When I installed mandriva it saw my nvidia card
and installed the nvidia driver.

My point is that nobody so far as I know has claimed
that Mandriva is violating the gpl. It seems to
me that kororaa is in at least as good a position.
Sunny Sachanandani 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 15:09
Including Nvidia closed source drivers IS NOT a GPL violation. The Nvidia drivers use their own implementation of DRM (Direct Rendering Manager). However they use open source code for some particular implementations in libGL (as far as I am aware) and they DO provide the source code for it in the package they provide.

Quote from Wikipedia :
"NVIDIA provides binary GeForce graphics drivers for X11 and a thin open-source library that interfaces between the Linux kernel or FreeBSD kernel and the proprietary graphics software."

It is perfectly legal to package the Nvidia binary drivers. Many distros do this : Linspire, SUSE, Mandriva, etc.

The person who mailed you probably doesn't have one bit of knowledge of the GPL and what it permits.
kmare 
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 18:53
I don't think you're violating anything. The only thing that could be a problem is the distribution of the nvidia/ati drivers since the user didn't directly download them from their respective sites. But since at least the nvidia proprietary drivers allow you to do that, then you're just fine. Don't know about ati though... and btw.. the nvidia driver has a hook (GPL?) to the kernel to connect the closed-source binary part to it. By doing this you're perfectly legal, or at least that's what I think, but I might be wrong of course.
btw: you could try asking about ati at the www.rage3d.com site...
HXC 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 02:02
I am still curious who send the mail. It sounds like a hoax to me. Anyhow if you didn't receive a
[u]letter[/u] from a lawyer representing an official organisation I wouldn't bother.
boon 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 02:26
Yeah, send 3 letters to the Copyright holders (Kernel,NV,ATI) and just ask them. Add some "no disagreement means agreement" to it and you are totally fine. Would not bother about an anonymous eMail :)
aussiebear 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 03:38
Its nonsense.

Someone doesn't like what you're doing, so they distract you with this BS.

I say ignore the email, and continue with the work you're doing.

If you halt your work, then they have succeeded in their objective.


BTW: Frugalware, Vector Linux, and PCLinuxOS also include ATI/Nvidia driver sets.


Morten 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 03:46
What is the difference between "mere aggregation" and "combining two modules into one program"?

Mere aggregation of two programs means putting them side by side on the same CD-ROM or hard disk. We use this term in the case where they are separate programs, not parts of a single program. In this case, if one of the programs is covered by the GPL, it has no effect on the other program.
Combining two modules means connecting them together so that they form a single larger program. If either part is covered by the GPL, the whole combination must also be released under the GPL--if you can't, or won't, do that, you may not combine them.
What constitutes combining two parts into one program? This is a legal question, which ultimately judges will decide. We believe that a proper criterion depends both on the mechanism of communication (exec, pipes, rpc, function calls within a shared address space, etc.) and the semantics of the communication (what kinds of information are interchanged).
If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are definitely combined in one program. If modules are designed to run linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means combining them into one program.
By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program.


Chris Smart 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 04:27
Hello everyone and thank you for your thoughts thus far.

I just thought I would post (seeing as a few people mentioned it) that while I will not reveal the person's name at this stage, my understanding is that he/she is a Linux kernel developer.

Thanks,
Chris
Tagmaster 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 09:25
Hes just a jackass, who want his 5 minutes of fame, it will be a big shame if we lost XGL Live CD just for this looser...
boon 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 10:18
A kernel developer would shurely not send such anonymous eMails! Guess they are happy about your work, because you don't harm them. Thinking about the XFree86/X making an extra closed source possible for suing People who use this? Only people maybe reacting allergic in including their files are NV/ATI in the first days. But they would shurely not inform you via anonymous eMail. This is true BS...
Rohan Dhruva 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 11:25
Hi,

From whose side did you recieve the email ? Who is it ? An individual ? And so what, even if kororaa violates gpl ? Whose gonna sue you ?!

And do tell me how the f*ck is it illegal ? PCLOS also distributes ati drivers ! As do many other distros. Tell the person who had the time to read all the legal bullshit -- "Go get a life, fucker". Sorry for the strong words, but when someone does something nice, WHY DONT PEOPLE LEAVE IT ALONE, IF THEY CANT APPRECIATE IT ?

For me, kororaa xgl cd has been a nice way to show off xgl ..
I am sorry I am a student, so I cannot help pay you for the legal advice, but seriously, I hope you get out of this mess !

Best wishes,
Rohan.
Tom 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 11:26
If You violate GPL by adding binary drivers then Linksys and most other vendors violate it too - most wireless routers come with linux distro and binary wifi driver (WRT54G, Mikrotik...).
They do provide source code of everything except binary drivers and it is considered fair.
LH 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 11:34
The problem is that you are linking GPL code (the kernel) with closed source component (the Nvidia binary blob). Distributing the resulting binary would be allowed iff the Nvidia driver itself would be GPL'ed.
ralph 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 12:28
This is bull.

First off, there are of course many linux distributions that provide closed source drivers, so if the logic of the anonymous email writer holds, nearly every distro would be in breach of the GPL and I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about this by now.

Second, it is my understanding that the purpose of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL() to make explicit that a kernel interface may not be used by propietary software. Now doesn't it logically follow from that that interfaces that don't EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL() can be talked to by closed source modules?
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/ ... /0369.html

Third, you should really post who send you this email, after of course trying to verify he really is who he claims he is. I'm sure this will turn out to be a prank by some stupid troll.


Pedro 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 12:30
Linus added an exception from the GPL for drivers. In any case only Linus or Nvidia could have any right to make you respect the license since they *own* the code.
Of course you can still use FreeBSD.
Dan 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 13:17
You should disclose who contacted you. If they have the balls to tell you that you are breaking the law then they should do it in public. Anyone can send an email. You should find out if this person is willing to stand behind the words in email.

I do not know if this person has a legal case(or the money to even make the case). Based on common practices I've seen in other Linux distro's it sounds pretty bogus.
Tom Davis 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 14:25
I am not a lawyer, so this should not be taken as valid legal advice.

Make sure that you are meeting the GPL requirements that you know and understand, which means making the source code for everything GPLed you distribute in binary form available, either in the distribution or on a Web or ftp site, and make sure that the location of the source is available. In this case that means the source code for the wrappers.

Make sure that the binary blobs distributed by ATI and NVidia are not compiled into the wrapper. That is, make sure that the wrapper USES the blob and does not incorporate it.

While it is true that NVidia and ATI have legal obligations to the copyright holders of any code they use, under the GPL distributors also have obligations. So do not rely on the actions of others as your protection. For example, if I steal a car and give it to you, that doesn't make it yours.

The easist thing to do at present might be to remove the NVidea and ATI blobs from your distribution until you can sort it out. While the other available drivers may not provide the acceleration of the proprietary ones, they should still work. OpenBSD refuses to include these types of closed source compiled blobs in part because they are potentially buggy and can cause system instabilities and because their contents are unknown, they are also a security issue.
Archie Steel 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 17:26
Someone said: "If either part is covered by the GPL, the whole combination must also be released under the GPL--if you can't, or won't, do that, you may not combine them."

Correction: if the combination is released, it must be under the GPL (if legal). It is perfectly legal to combine GPL and proprietary if you don't redistribute the combination (in this case, combination means amalgamation, not aggregation).

Another person said: "The easist thing to do at present might be to remove the NVidea and ATI blobs from your distribution until you can sort it out. While the other available drivers may not provide the acceleration of the proprietary ones, they should still work."

Unfortunately, for an Xgl demo, you need the acceleration provided by the proprietary drivers.

In any case, from a legal point of view, you are safe until someone actually sends you a Cease and Desist letter (not an e-mail).
ceejayoz 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 17:45
Sounds like an asshole trying to interfere. Ignore it. If the copyright holders object, they'll send an official Cease & Desist notice, in which case you can take it down. No need to remove it on the say-so of an anonymous internet troll.

This prick didn't even follow the FSF's instructions on how to deal with possible violations.
Jeffrey Bolden 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 18:03
1) I think in principle you are in violation of the GPL

2) As mentioned above the person who wrote the letter likely does
not have any standing so it doesn't matter what they think

3) The people who do have standing our firmly of the opinion that this mixed code does not violate the GPL. The kernel team has been clear about this as have Nvidia and ATI. They have further published this opinion on multiple occasions. This means they've polluted the case and you could rightfully claim they've lost rights of enforcement

4) In America anyone can sue you for anything. A legal question always amount to "can they win" and given #2 and 3, the answer is "no".

5) Even if they could win If you don't have any money though you aren't a very tempting target

6) Having posted this board and thus asked for common opinion further validates that the issues are confused and makes winning a case even harder (you can prove your own good faith).

Go ahead and distribute.

--Jeff

Snis 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 18:04
Cris,

There is an easy solution for you.
Don't distribute the Nvidia or ATI drivers, instead write a script that detects the graphic card, then prompt the user a choice to download the driver from ATI/nVidia homepage and make the user agree to install it. That way you will never violate the GPL, neither will the user cause he/her won't redistribute the RAM disk ;)
I believe that Mandriva and the other Linux distros gets away with noit breaking the GPL is because the driver doesn't come installed from the beginning. That's not a problem when we are talking about installing to the harddrive, but it is an issue when it comes to running something "preinstalled" from a CD.
This "workaround" shouldn't be a big deal to implement.

Great work!!

./danne at snis dot pointclark dot net
Felix M Wells 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 18:42
I honestly can't see how this is a GPL violation. If anyone is responsible it's nVidia and ATI. Linspire do it and they haven't been threatened by crazy kernel developers. You were just trying to make Linux a little easier. This guy was clearly an RMS not a Linus.
Anton 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 19:37
" The GPL license clause 2 does not allow combination"

actually kernel remains GPL v1 and you can continue do the job.
I would just tell them to fk off. I also agree with all people above: just ignore the sender unless this is official request.
You are not the first man who is doing livecd with nvidia/ati bin drivers and you are doing it very good. Good luck!

Qbertino 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 19:46
It violates the GPL. It's that simple.
Of course you just want to build a hassle free distro. Kudos to you. But the next thing we know is Microsoft 'just wanting to provide a hassle-free Direct X for Linux' and shipping it precomiled.
As much as it hurts, here's where we *ALL* have to draw the line and where the GPL forces us to do it. That's the whole point of the GPL over the BSD type of licences.

The way around, of course, is automating the process of compilation upon install. A little more work but you'll have the same result and won't be in violation of the GPL.

Bottom line:
It violates the GPL. Kernel Source Copyright holders can sue you. Don't do it.
jon 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 20:45
Hi,

Linus and other developers have already weighed in on this issue, in your favour. If you really think this may be a problem (it wont be), then please disclose the name of the person threatening you. I would be very surprised if they have a copyright interest in the kernel and could claim infingement. Even if they could, there is no legal remedy that you need to fear (you cannot disclose the source, at worst you must cease distribution).

FOSS is not written by those who seek to stifle innovation or prevent competition. I suspect you are being trolled to test a boundary condition. I would love to know who would fire the first lawsuit on 'behalf' of the Linux kernel developers against you. This could only benefit those who seek to promote the fiction that proprietry software has fewer legal risks.

Take care,
Jon



Josh 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 20:47
Care to explain, Qbertino, if it's really "that simple"?
Jimmy 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 20:57
Leave it to the GPL Zealots who already do a great job pissing off every casual "non elite" user who doesn't subscribe to their idiotic self serving ideology even more so..

And people wonder why linux has such a hard time getting into the desktop arena.


Matt K 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 21:52
Keep in mind that, inasmuch as some internet bozo may have decided that you are "in violation of the GPL" this is fairly meaningless in and of itself unless a rightsholder in the work you are distributing decides to sue you for copyright infringment.

Now, in the United States, you can sue anyone for any reason. You don't have to be RIGHT to file suit. The only thing that slows this process down is the fact that it costs money both to file and to defend a suit. Its unlikely in the extreme that any small time or anonymous person will file suit without both the likelihood of prevailing AND the ability to recover costs (the US is not a loser pays system). They can moo a lot (i.e. have a cow) but unless they're a licensed attorney they are most likely going to make such an ill-informed complaint that you would be able to have it dismissed with ease. There *is* risk of course -- the US system is pay to play.

Keep in mind though that the GPL is a defense against a charge of copyright infringment. Only someone whose copyright you infringe has standing to file suit -- there is no enforcement by third parties in US law.

In an area where the actual case law is pretty much nonexistent (being the area of what constitutes making a derivitive work), without a lot of deep pockets around to pay for the thousands of hours of litigation such a suit would cost to litigate it strikes me as being a pretty safe bet that your distribution is safe. You will certainly draw shrill voices out of the woodwork, but I'd feel pretty safe ignoring them.

As a followup thought, keep in mind that damages for copyright violation are *generally* going to be set not to punish violation but to provide restitution for the value of the work you are copying. If the allegedly infringing code is freely distributed by the author, and you're freely redistributing, albeit with terms the author doesn't agree with, you're not likely to get slapped with much in the way of restitution; instead, you would be looking at an injunction prohibiting you from continuing the violation.

Inasmuch as the United States has a legal system, not a justice system, it still TRIES to be just and fair; I would think that most reasonble people (including judges) hearing what is likely to be a shrill and annoying third party making claims like "he's making that free stuff combine with that other free stuff -- make him stop it right now!" are likely to think of a way to say "shut up, and go away" as directly as possible.

I'm NOT an attorney and I don't play one on TV - but I do try to stay reasonably well informed.


Anthony 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 22:01
From a coder's perspective:

NVIDIA's response to your query indicates that no kernel code is statically linked into the compiled driver module - which is composed of a shim and a binary.

HEADER files do not of themselves constitute code - they are specifications, defining constants, structures and procedure call prototypes that enable other applications to understand how to correctly call those procedures and understand the results returned. Constants, structures and procedure prototypes do not constitute code.

Code is only included when the resulting module is STATICALLY linked with it's dependant libraries. In the case of the NVIDIA driver, this is not happening. NVIDIA uses DYNAMIC linking between the compiled driver module and the system libraries. Another way of explaining this is that the shim part of the module does not contain any GPL code, but makes calls to GPL libraries that exist seperately to the module.

Jason 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 22:17
1. If the email you received did not come from a lawyer or law firm, ignore it
2. If you did not receive actual physical certified snail mail papers from a law firm, ignore it

I have been involved with several open-source development projects and can say these types of emails are common. It's idiots who *think* they know the law and how license agreements work screwing around. If your code was in violation of any license agreement, you would have heard from nVidia, or ATI, or somebody's lawyers by now. And they would not use email as the sole means of contacting you for a cease and desist order.

Don't sweat it and keep chugging along. Someone is just yanking your chain because they have nothing but time on their hands and little education.

If the email was from a lawyer, then he/she would have given you contact information (phone number, address, etc.) and would have to explain the violation to you in detail. The explanations in the email quote are very obviously *not* from a lawyer! Lawyers don't use improper grammar like "bigger work", for example.

Also, if you are still in doubt, CALL! don't email nVidia and ATI's legal departments. It won't cost anything more than the phone call and they will have the ABSOLUTE answer.
Anonymous Coward 
Monday, May 15, 2006, 22:49
GPL is THE cancer, its killing Linux. Only brainless Linux fanatics cannot see that. We must be thankful for Nvidia and ATI for providing drivers rather than keep away from Linux. Everybody knows it is illegal to develop and distribute closed source drivers for Linux but they still found a way to provide with drivers.

These brainless donkeys cannot understand the importance of drivers. Here is a good example, recently I bought a Nokia N91 hand phone. Its spec says it supports USB Mass Storage. But the reality was to connect N91 to my Linux PC, it requires a driver on my PC to drive the cable provided (DKE-2). Nokia releases the driver only for MS Windows 2000 and XP. So I had to return the phone. N91's sound is so amazing, so we Linux users are not lucky to enjoy quality music on the move. Linux market share is more than twice the Apple, but Nokia doesn't bother to release a driver for Linux. Why? Its this *ing GPL.

Open Source developers cannot develop drivers for all the gadgets in the world. They don't have the specs, know how or time for that. Driver development is in the domain of the manufacturer. We must create an infrastructure so that manufacturers can develop quality drivers without a legal hassle.
Anton 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 01:11
Anonymous Coward:
No way I will thank for the binaries without specifications from vendors.
I have IBM thinkpad T42 laptop with ATI 9600.
And guess what? The driver from ATI doesn't work! It's simple too buggy.
And xgl liveCD doesn't work on my laptop because of it!
Check out the lastest known issues:
https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_8.24.8.html#178982

The following section provides a brief description of known issues associated with the latest version of ATI Proprietary Linux driver. These issues include:
Attempting to install the ATI Proprietary Linux driver on distributions that have updated certain 3D components outside of the stock XOrg 6.8.2 may result in the driver not initializing 3D applications properly. Further details can be found in topic number 737-20868
TV Display is Corrupt After Switching Resolutions. Further details can be found in topic number 737-1086
Running two X servers simultaneously results in the system failing to respond. Further details can be found in topic number 737-220
X Server may fail to load when using an ATI Radeon® X1x00, 512MB product with certain motherboards. Further details can be found in topic number 737-22056
TV Out is currently not supported on the ATI Radeon® X1x00 products. Further details can be found in topic number 737-22057
Toggling between console mode and X Server graphical mode may result in a system hang. Further details can be found in topic number 737-22058
A system hang may occur when attempting to resume from hibernation mode. Further details can be found in topic number 737-22059

They can't fix it for _1_year_ already and this is only public details. There a lot of bugs and crashes in unofficial bugtrack. Let me know if you want the list.

Let's have a look on IBM way (it's still far away from perfect):
they have released the specifications for sensors, fingerprints,
They also released opensource video drivers (i810, i915) and it's build-in to xorg today.
Have a look on ipw2100.sf.net and other wireless from ibm. It's opensource.

Personally I don't care if ATI Proprietary driver won't be in the distro.
I know that current opensource driver is not so fast today, but I hope it'll be better soon.
Sorry for off-topic.

Suger 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 02:15
My two cents, FWIW :

As far as I know, Ubuntu comes with the nvidia driver (couldn't say for sure for the ati one) compiled and bundled in the distro (and the LiveCD), but the module isn't pre-loaded, you have to load it by yourself (or add it to the autoloaded modules), and it sure tells you that "Warning, the nvidia module taints the kernel" when it's loaded. If Ubuntu is respecting the GPL (and I wouldn't dare to think they don't), all you would need to do would be to add a script (directly in rc ?) which, when nvidia or ati is detected, asks the user if he wants to load the necessary modules and warning him that doing so will taint the kernel ?

But I'm no techie nor lawyer myself, so...
HXC 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 02:40
More posts here:

http://forums.kororaa.org/viewtopic.php ... 8402861ca6
John Asbjørn 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 05:18
If this is GPL, then the hell with it!
treb0r 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 05:46
"If this is GPL, then the hell with it!"

It appears that most computer users are totally ignorant of the recent history of the computer industry and the fascinating story of how the GPL came into being.Suffice to say, without the GPL and the good work of RMS and the FSF, you would have no LiveCD distro at all. Neither would you have a compiler or many other critical parts of the GNU/Linux OS.

For interested parties, the story is all here:

http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/

Hardware vendors like ATI and Nvidia need to release GPL'd versions of their driver code to prevent unfortunate episodes such as this.
Thomas 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 06:11
I'm afraid the person who wrote the letter is right.
Using GPL code is "viral". That is if it touches anything else it becomes GPL according to the GPL license - whether the other part is GPL or not. Thus the drivers would become GPL. BUT the question is whether it can be said that things operate "at arms length". If the interface between the kernel and the driver is LGPL I'd say it could be argued that it's ok.

I'd say contact the Free Software Foundation and hear what they have to say. Explain how things interface as laid out above - and check out what license governs the interface.
Andy 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 07:16
Just make the livecd ask for a memory stick with the required driver file during the boot proccess. It will for sure protect you from those zealots.
Beranger 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 07:19
No, this is not a GPL violation!
AnotherOne 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 07:49
E:
Anonymous Coward (ac<at>gmail.com)
Monday, May 15, 2006, 05:49.
/QUOTE


I am glad that you do not care using non-GPL software. Then why just don´t you use Windows XP?. Is that simple!! You have all non-GPL modules that you may want for you operating system. The cancer are the non-GPL licenses, that do not suceed. BSD did not suceed because is the best housing for non-GPL programs, drivers and other bullshit. Vendor/manufactures never will feel the need to write open source since BSD just allows you to ship with any license. You even needn´t to release the source code neither assure that the freedom that was given to you is preserved when you pass the program to a friend. The only great success that UNIX had was MACOSX, is a good Apple´s operating system and is not GPL. Neither cocoa nor Darwin are. But then where is the difference from windows and mac?. GNU is not unix, GNU is free software and wants to make a completely free third-parties-independent operating system.

Look at Ralink, look at Intel, and maybe look at Sun too (if definitely makes java GPL, that I really doubt, but i have hope). If they released GPL or are going to do that is because GPL is so good that some companies are turning their products into that. They could just put its drivers BSD and tell: Use FreeBSD, you apps will work. But now the truth is that GNU/Linux is becoming more and more popular even than BSD and that is the reason, the GPL.

Insulting people to defend your ideas you are not defending your ideas, you are insulting other people.
boon 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 09:30
Question is, is GPL code and non GPL code merged? No! Because the Kernel just uses a Driver which is not GPL. Is the Driver illegal, because it merges open source and closed source? No! Because the part of the Driver which uses the GPL specs for a Kernel driver is under GPL also. Only one who could complain is NV/ATI, but they don't! Specialy non anonymously in a way huting themselves...
James 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 10:32
First do pay attention to the standing of the person complaining. If they aren't a copyright holder in the kernel you can ignore them and assume they are just clueless.

The basis for the objection is a philsophical belief that all software should have its source disclosed - it's what drives RMS and some other people who use the GPL. The FSF may argue either way depending on whether it's a philosopher or a lawyer replying - the philosopher, particularly RMS, will probably agree with the objection on philosophical grounds, the lawyer will probably disagree on legal grounds.

That basis is here resulting in a pressuure tactic on the hardware makers to try to force them to distribute the source for their drivers by making life hard for their customers if they don't, via making it hard to distribute an easy to use distro supporting them. Welcome to life as a pawn in GPL political games.

The legal argument is whether a device driver linked with an operating system is a derivative work of the operating system. That is, whether all drivers for Microsoft Windows are derivative works of Microsoft Windows that Microsoft controls. The answer to that question is clearly no. Even when it's applied to Linux drivers. They both get the same law applied to them and if one is or isn't that applies to the other. In both cases the drivers are written to public APIs and interact with them as specified in the API.

Expect hassle from some extreme publish all source code fantaics. Don't expect actual legal trouble.
xyzzy 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 10:32
"Suffice to say, without the GPL and the good work of RMS and the FSF, you would have no LiveCD distro at all. Neither would you have a compiler or many other critical parts of the GNU/Linux OS."

Or perhaps a better solution may have been found. The non-existance of the GPL does not imply that it's polar opposite would succeed.

Free as in freedom is public domain. I make software, I'll never release anything GPL. If someone wants to take my code and make a commercial closed offshoot, they are free to. It doesn't take my code away from me.




treb0r 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 12:02
"Or perhaps a better solution may have been found. The non-existance of the GPL does not imply that it's polar opposite would succeed."

The fact is, the GPL does exist, and thanks to the mostly single-handed efforts of RMS in the early days, we can all sit back and enjoy computing freedoms that ultimately stem from them. You may make software, but have you provided humanity with the basic building blocks required to construct a viable, free, alternative Operating System?

I think a little more gratitude for what we have all received as a result of the GPL would not be unreasonable.
Chris Bergeron 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 12:36
You're not violating the GPL, at least not in the way the e-mailer is specifying. Shame on them for (probably intentionally) obfuscation.

AFAIK it depends on your definition of "derivative". Many people are of the opinion that a driver not created explicitly for a single platform can't be considered "derivative" and is therefore not required to be distributed under the GPL in order to send it along with your distribution.

Others contest that it *must* be a derivative work and must therefore be GPL licensed as well.

nVidia, as they claimed in their e-mail, believes that the layer that runs the interface between the kernel and their non-linux-specific driver bits that interface with the card must be GPL (and is) and that the driver itself doesn't have to be GPL because it runs their card on many platforms and therefore isn't a derivative work of the Linux kernel.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my opinion gleaned from numerous persons more educated than I in legaleese.
marvin 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 14:39
i've got one simple idea... lets say the guy is right,then isnt it possible to make a startup script to livecd which will build and insert nvidia module at boottime? it would take quite longer time to boot the cd and maybe include some more things to cd, but i think it is posssible and can be used as workaround until things get clear....
marvin 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 14:45
or ati driver of course... it would not require downloading anything from net as would one possible solution someone had written,so we could use the cd also without working internet connectionor ati driver of course... it would not require downloading anything from net as would one possible solution someone had written,so we could use the cd also without working internet connection
ProStableBinaryAPI 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 16:10
"I will not reveal the person's name at this stage, my understanding is that he/she is a Linux kernel developer."

Let me guess - Greg Kroah-Hartman?
Dhonn 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 16:14
From what I've been reading most linux distributors are distributing these proprietary drivers/apps on a seperate cd or over net internet and the user must explicitly install them. The binary proprietary drivers can not combined when distributed.

What everyone should be fighting hard for is having NVIDIA and ATI release thier specs to the linux programmers so they can write drivers or release their code under GPL.


Dhonn 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 16:25
I will not reveal the person's name at this stage, my understanding is that he/she is a Linux kernel developer."

Let me guess - Greg Kroah-Hartman?


That guy works at Novell to create SUSE Linux. As far as I can tell they distribute nvidia drivers on a seperate proprietary cd or you have to install the nvidia drivers manually.

paradexes 
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 19:25
Here is a comment I posted since it was too long to go in here. There is a forum thread on it I started.

http://forums.kororaa.org/viewtopic.php?t=1128

If the information contained no contact info for an attorney or was correspondence from an attorney then it has no force whatso ever. The person could easily have spoofed someones email for all you know. Bottom line is email under US law (which applies here due to the GPLv2 origins) not considered legitamate in a court of law. It can only be used to determine intent. You cannot establish ownership or any legal claim via email.

Also this person did not take the time to properly write the email if that is the full body of it. Again suspicious in itself. Someone with a real cause would have taken the time to fully quote the GPL clauses he mentions. And establish them. Please read the post you will find quotes from the GPL that are both implied and explicit that support kororaa.
Chesso 
Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 00:41
I thought the idea of it all was that *only* if a specific program or module *actually* contains *code* from a GPL'd w/e licensed program or module did it also have to be *GPL'd*.

If this thing is seperate like Windows is to the software made for it how in the hell does that work?

Because it talks with the kernel? big bloody woop, doesn't it have to *actually* contain kernerl code inside it's sources to be GPL'd?

I don't know much about linux but some of this GLP stuff sounds like utter crap and sue bait to me.
bcroq 
Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 05:42
Here is how I understand the mail: when compiling non-GPL code with GPL code, you produce code that isn't GPL compatible.

As far as I remember, ATI and nVidia proprietary drivers need to be compiled before being used, and these compilations need some code from Linux' source.

The solution for this kind of problem is quite "simple": compile the needed modules when they are needed... thus, the CD contains only GPL compatible content.
Dexter Filmore 
Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 06:48
Right now I wonder why I don't see a word about *who* wrote you this email.

Jon 
Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 07:42
[the form ate my considerably longer post, so here's a summary]:

As the nvidia mail explains, the "shim" portion of the driver is GPL, and the binary-only bit is not.

The binary-only bit is distributed under a licence which is not compatible with the GPL.

Linking GPL code to other code is only distributable if the result is GPL (or GPL compatible).

So you cannot legally distribute a linked driver, consisting of shim and binary-only.

Distributions do not do this. They provide helper scripts or wizards to do the linking on the user's machine and only distribute the two parts.

The user is not permitted to redestribute the resulting linked driver (and has no need to)

There is no reason that Kororaa cannot perform the linking stage as part of the boot process or similar, as a work-around.

However, if you are distributing the linked driver in its entirety now, that is a GPL violation (and is one reason nvidia don't provide a single, fully-complete driver from the get-go).

I do not see why it is important who sent the mail. Who wishes to know -- is there a lynch mob being prepared? :(
andy 
Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 18:30
Chris

> Jon wrote :
> Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 14:42
> As the nvidia mail explains, the "shim" portion of the driver is GPL, and the binary-only bit is not.
> The binary-only bit is distributed under a license which is not compatible with the GPL.
> Linking GPL code to other code is only distributable if the result is GPL (or GPL compatible).
> So you cannot legally distribute a linked driver, consisting of shim and binary-only.

Linking the "shim" portion of the driver with the binary nvidia drivers is the last step in the nvidia build process. Wouldn't than the following solve your issue :

1. Install nvidia drivers as usual with the nvidia installer ( do not remove the nvidia install dir afterwards)
2. remove the nvidia.ko modules from the modules directory
3. Copy the NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-1.0-8756-pkg2/usr/src/nv directory to a place where it can be access during linux boot. remove the nvidia.ko module before copying. So at this point no linked nvidia driver exist anymore on the system
3. Execute: ld -m elf_x86_64 -r -o nv/nvidia.ko nv/nvidia.o nv/nvidia.mod.o during the boot process of the livecd
4. copy the resulting linked nvidia kernel module into the modules directory

So your livecd would not contain the pre-linked driver and linking of the "shim" portion and the binary portion of the nvidia driver would be performed during boot.

andy
stub 
Thursday, May 18, 2006, 05:58
I've already seen live distributions including nvidia drivers, so this isn't a problem. For example take a look at mepis.
juergen 
Thursday, May 18, 2006, 09:19
Like most of here, I'm not an expert for GPL, but I had to go through it (GPL and LGPL) for my companies software project (commercial).

Anyhow, I agree with Jon and andy, just seperate the drivers from anything on the CD. Make some boot-time-install like andy proposed it (I can't judge if this really works, but it sounds like it would work).
Then you are on the safe side.


And to the person who wrote that email: Whats on with you? Don't you have anything better to do?

And to the point with calling the CD itself a "bigger work": if this is so, then installing any linux kernel would make my harddrive to a "bigger work", or even my whole PC.
And writing my own name on my self-burned linux-cds and giving them along would also violate GPL as my name isnt under GPL....
Where could you draw the line????


Please continue your great work with kororaa! Dropping it would be a loss to the linux-world. You got this far!
Bobby Skinner 
Thursday, May 18, 2006, 16:57
This is why the GPL is a horrible license. It is parasitic in that it can not coexist with more free licenses. They claim that the support freedom, yet they restrict yours. The biggest mistake that Linus Torvolds ever did was to change linux to GPL. My suggestion is start over with FreeBSD as the core as it has a very reasonable license. Linux will be hobbled as long as it is GPL. This case is a perfect example of the problem. You can not mix the drivers unless you can release them as GPL (which you can't because you do not own them). The problem is not that the drivers are not open source - they are, however they have a more free license.

GPL says they are for "Free as in speech, not as in beer" - yet this is an example of where they limit your freedom in order to guarantee that your work (and all derivatives) will be free as in beer.

This is the problem with the GPL, it is about limiting your freedom. They do it to guarantee that your work would always be available at no cost. Which it does effectively do, but the fact that they are stopping you from producing a free product who's source is just as available as their own shows the problem.

FreeBSD is the way - open source done right! You are free to use it as you see fit as long as you give them credit. You are encouraged to give back to the open source world, but you are not required to. The only real freedom is when you have the choice. GPL takes away your choice. I hope your troubles stop the trend of GPL as the dominant open-source model.

It is time to bering freedom back to "free" software
Aitikin 
Thursday, May 18, 2006, 23:44
This is in response to Blanton's comment about GPL v3

The Linux Kernel is liscensed under GPL v2. It cannot be released under GPL v3 due to the fact that it is specified on the source code. Linus Torvalds said:

"The Linux kernel has _always_ been under the GPL v2. Nothing else has ever been valid.
The "version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version" language in the GPL copying file is not - and has never been - part of the actual License itself. It's part of the _explanatory_ text that talks about how to apply the license to your program, and it says that _if_ you want to accept any later versions of the GPL, you can state so in your source code.

The Linux kernel has never stated that in general. Some authors have chosen to use the suggested FSF boilerplate (including the "any later version" language), but the kernel in general never has.

In other words: the _default_ license strategy is always just the particular version of the GPL that accompanies a project. If you want to license a program under _any_ later version of the GPL, you have to state so explicitly. Linux never did.

So: the extra blurb at the top of the COPYING file in the kernel source tree was added not to _change_ the license, but to _clarify_ these points so that there wouldn't be any confusion.

The Linux kernel is under the GPL version 2. Not anything else. Some individual files are licenceable under v3, but not the kernel in general."


I agree with everyone you've spoken to, this does nothing to violate the GPL. All of /. seems to be behind you as well. If I were you, I would continue to work on the project personally and just not seed it until you get this matter straightened out.

~Aitikin
ChaosBringer 
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 04:08
I want to spend some words about this issue, hoping to be useful and apologizing for my poor english.

1) You did a great job with the xgl liveCD, and i hope you will continue it. Manually installing and configuring the ATI proprietary drivers is an headache and your distro is the only (of which i tried) that can handle correctly my mobility radeon 9700, with appropriate acceleration. Many thanks for that. I will appreciate that approach also from other distro developers.

2) As many people stated before, you should ignore emails from other people than the copyright holders. I suggest you ignoring emails at all, until you certainly identify the sender. You all know how easy is to send an email with the spoofed sender set to a kernel developer's, for example.

3) Creatinc closed source software (and then drivers) that run on linux is NOT illegal by itself, you should just not include parts of gpl'ed software. Many hardware vendors provide drivers for windows only (rarely for mac) for 2 reasons: a) commercial contracts (basically with ms) and b) creating drivers for others op systems than win require an extra work, for reaching only a little part of the users (win has about 90% of the marketshare).
Guys like AnonymousCoward will better get informed of what they are writing about.

(sorry for being this long =)
Best regards.
ChaosBringer 
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 04:46
One last thing:

Many of you propose to distribute the proprietary part of the drivers separately and to link it on the user's machine.
Ok, that's fine for an install and is perfectly gpl-compliant.
But that's a LIVE CD! It already takes some minutes to boot up, how many time will get to re-build the packages every time i want to boot the cd? And the result is the same: a tainted kernel (Which i prefer to a pure kernel that doesnt give me hw accelerated graphics)
The LiveCD you made is fast enough and is an important contribute to the spreading of linux as a desktop os, especially now that Vista's eyecandy may be used as an argument by some people stating that linux is obsolete.
So i don't understand why some purists keep on blaming this installation. If it is tolerated by the copyright holders, it is OK.

(All this IMHO, obviously)
Chesso 
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 06:04
Why do parts of these drivers contain some of the source? there must be a damn good reason and slapping a licence on that source section is just asking for it.

If it's necessary for that source to be included then they are practacly forcing the licencse upon developers.
Jon 
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 12:17
@ChaosBringer: Why should it matter who points out the infringement? Who can be considered a copyright holder for the Linux kernel? Someone who has code in the SCSI subsystem, for example, do they have any more "right" to point out a problem with the video driver subsystem than anyone else? If it was someone who has no code in the Linux system, why is that important and how does it invalidate their argument?
Lionel Debroux 
Sunday, May 21, 2006, 06:06
I was waiting for someone to state the obvious:
"The LiveCD you made is fast enough and is an important contribute to the spreading of linux as a desktop os, especially now that Vista's eyecandy may be used as an argument by some people stating that linux is obsolete."
Great, "ChaosBringer" !

Look at the facts:
* Xgl is offering an eye-candy that Aero in Vista will deliver to customers, but nearly one year later... and Xgl seems to be somewhat less resource-hungry than Aero.
* Kororaa is one of the best-known GNU/Linux distributions using Xgl.
* Kororaa is for no fee and cannot be pirated, Vista is expensive and is supposed to be hard to pirate.

Microsoft is using the supposed lack of eye-candy of FLOSS to try to make customers believe FLOSS stinks (on a related note, see how Microsoft PR people are stating that ODF cater to the needs of StarOffice/OpenOffice users, not to those of Office users...). Kororaa is providing evidence to the contrary. For Microsoft, it makes perfect (one may say "vital") sense to ensure projects like this are shot !
Same with Apple and MacOS X, but it has been eye-candy for longer than Windows.

And they're even making a double shot here: the debate involves quite a lot of (perfectly relevant and somewhat well-founded, we must say) anti-GPL FUD !

I agree with "Bobby Skinner" and others, that the GPL is not a good license (and I'm reluctant to putting my own small software even under pure LGPL), but the BSD one isn't great either. See that Apple has just closed the source of the MacOS X kernel on Intel PCs, fearing "piracy" (sigh... piracy is the current buzzword among copyright holders, they get governments all over the words to vote laws that restrict usage but don't curb piracy...), because the Apache/BSD license allows them to do so.


We're in the real world here: OSS has indeed come a very long way, and RMS has done a significant job that many wouldn't have bet it would catch even several years ago, but most things are still proprietary, and will remain for the forseeable future... especially if a bunch of extremists take the stance of demanding that everything is free and hinder free software adoption instead of helping it !
So please, since the mail seems to have no real merit at all, don't give up the proprietary drivers on the Kororaa LiveCD, all the more the previous posters have given a workaround that looks feasible and acceptable (unless that way is illegal too - I doubt either is, but one never knows). You'd only favor the all-proprietary choices, which are much worse than a mostly-free choice with several proprietary bits !
(Anyway, if you did, Kororaa would a) still be distributed on P2P networks for a while - starting with my machine when it is connected to the Internet, even on my small ADSL 512/128K line - and b) probably get forked, which is not in users' interest).
Felix M. Wells 
Sunday, May 21, 2006, 21:36
I sent an email to RMS about this and got this response. Hope this clears everything up.

On 21 May 2006, at 01:55, Richard Stallman wrote:

Linus said he allows non-free kernel modules, and once the kernel
developers say that something is allowed, nobody else can use the GPL
to stop it. (That is how copyright law works.)

Thus, we cannot stop this using the law. We have to teach people to
recognize that a non-free driver, like any non-free program, is an
attack on your freedom.


Felix M. Wells 
Wednesday, May 24, 2006, 12:42
Oops. Re-read the second part, he thinks I'm trying to shut you guys down. :P
Luke-Jr 
Thursday, May 25, 2006, 04:52
Linus does not have copyright over the entire kernel. All kernel copyright holders would need to agree to a binary module exception. Further, your reference to Linus's allowance was not "it's okay", but "my understanding of the GPL is that it is okay", which he has since learned was incorrect.
Felix M. Wells 
Thursday, May 25, 2006, 18:15
That wasn'y my reference although I believed it was true. RMS said that. Well, I stand corrected.
Jade 
Tuesday, May 30, 2006, 07:22
I would really, really appreciate some comment on this article and its claims.

Here is some more info on the Kororaa (Nvidia/ATI kernel module) controversy:

Quote taken from: http://linux.coconia.net/politics/kmodsGPL.htm

The above mentioned possibility of hiding the entire code of a program as an application library, is the reason that the GPL demands that any application that links to GPL'd shared libraries, must itself be GPL'd (a program is GPL'd, if it is licensed under the GPL).

It has been claimed that distributing a GPL'd kernel with binary closed source kernel modules is illegal. This claim has been advanced, to stop Linux distributors from shipping with Nvidia and ATI drivers that work "straight out of the box". A recent example of this is the Kororaa controversy.

Those wishing to cripple Linux, make many unsubstantiated claims, some of which are wrong, in order to prevent Linux distributors shipping Nvidia and ATI drivers that work "out of the box". Here is a sample:

1) GPL and non-GPL components cannot be included together on a CD.
2) Closed source kernel modules distributed with a GPL'd kernel clearly violates the GPL.
3) Don't include closed source kernel modules as the situation is murky. You might get sued.
4) Closed source kernel modules link to the kernel in the same way that applications link to libraries, therefore you cannot include them with a GPL'd kernel.

One, is wrong. Two, is not clear at all. Three, which sounds correct, is also wrong. Think about it, who is going to sue you? The Free Software Foundation? Not likely. Perhaps Microsoft might be interested in enforcing the GPL. Four, seems to have some merit, but is wrong..........

For the full article, see http://linux.coconia.net/
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